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Liberals!

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MR FRISK
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Liberals!

Post by MR FRISK » Mon May 15, 2017 10:29 pm

When someone commits horrific acts of murder and rape etc the person or persons is given "protection" e.g. sent to a mental hospital instead of a prison and given more rights than a "normal" person ! they are fed through tubes if they refuse food and are given free medical care/books satellite t.v. and health and fitness experts. This kind of thing has gone on since the end of world war 2 in Europe. If the person gets abused in the jail or hospital they are segregated away from"normal" prisoners. They are given free methadone if they are usually high on drugs. and can ring there families for about 2 hours a week. Could the Brexit vote stop this madness and we can now get rid of ALL liberals and send them to Europe where they can carry on this practise

Lou
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Re: Liberals!

Post by Lou » Tue May 16, 2017 3:45 pm

I think that ALL prisoners get too much pamper treatment in prison today. I think they have it far too easy and get too many privelges. That's just my opinion, like.....
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Musta bin Elbowed
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Re: Liberals!

Post by Musta bin Elbowed » Tue May 16, 2017 7:34 pm

Mr Frisk - you seem confused and, dare I say it, a bit irrational. I probably shouldn't bite but you did ask, so...
MR FRISK wrote:
Mon May 15, 2017 10:29 pm
When someone commits horrific acts of murder and rape etc the person or persons is given "protection" e.g. sent to a mental hospital instead of a prison
This is incorrect. Serious criminals are sent to prison unless they are deemed to be mentally ill, in which case they are incarcerated in a secure mental hospital (where they can be treated and cured, if possible). No one is sent to a mental hospital to 'protect' them from prison. And if you think the loony bin is the cushy option for criminals, you've obviously never seen One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
MR FRISK wrote:
Mon May 15, 2017 10:29 pm
they are fed through tubes if they refuse food

This only applies to prisoners who are deemed mentally ill and incarcerated in hospital. Prisoners serving their time in jail have the right to refuse to eat, to go on hunger strike, and to starve themselves to death if they wish, and by law they can not be force fed.
MR FRISK wrote:
Mon May 15, 2017 10:29 pm
If the person gets abused in the jail or hospital they are segregated away from"normal" prisoners.


Would you prefer it if instead we had state-sanctioned murder of prisoners by their fellow inmates? It's the UK, not Bolivia.
MR FRISK wrote:
Mon May 15, 2017 10:29 pm
and can ring there families for about 2 hours a week.
The alternative is a large number of prisoners developing a mental illness/suicidal tendencies due to prolonged isolation and loneliness. That would mean even more of them being transferred to those mental hospitals you were complaining about. Shall we take away their visitation rights as well? Would that be sadistic enough for you?
MR FRISK wrote:
Mon May 15, 2017 10:29 pm
Could the Brexit vote stop this madness and we can now get rid of ALL liberals and send them to Europe where they can carry on this practise
No, it won't. Like many people, it seems you believe Brexit is a magic wand which is going to get rid of everyone you hate. It won't.

As for wanting to live in a country where political dissidents are forcibly deported - that's called a dictatorship. They never end well.

Musta bin Elbowed
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Re: Liberals!

Post by Musta bin Elbowed » Tue May 16, 2017 7:48 pm

Lou wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 3:45 pm
I think that ALL prisoners get too much pamper treatment in prison today. I think they have it far too easy and get too many privelges. That's just my opinion, like.....
Thing is, most people (and I'm assuming that includes your good self) have never seen the inside of a prison let alone served time in one. All most people really know is what they get from the tabloid press and the occasional TV documentary. The reality is prisoners spend up to 23 hours a day locked in a 6 x 8ft room, having to sh!t in a bucket in full view of their cellmate. Doesn't sound all that easy and pampered to me.

But hey! Let's ask someone who actually knows - step forward Neville Thurlbeck, former chief reporter at the News of the World, a man who made a career out of concocting just the sort of "prisons are a holiday camp" rubbish the tabloids love shoving down our throats until we believe it. He wrote plenty of those stories - before being sent to jail himself for phone hacking. Upon his release, the thoroughly humbled Mr Thurlbeck told an interviewer: "I can disabuse anybody of the notion that it’s a holiday camp. There are interminable hours of boredom and pain. The beds are made of what I can only describe as giant pencil rubbers and over time your hips and shoulders and elbows start to ache. It is pretty grim."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... s-belmarsh

Lou
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Re: Liberals!

Post by Lou » Thu May 18, 2017 4:11 pm

If you can't do the time then don't do the crime.........and also us taxpayers are providing them with three meals a day and a roof over their heads, which is a damn sight more a a lot of the poorer people in this country have. Not preaching at all it's just my opinion.
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rodoz
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Re: Liberals!

Post by rodoz » Thu May 18, 2017 7:19 pm

Must admit it was nice (in my opinion) to hear of Ian Bradys death the other day. GREAT DAY.
He wasn't a journalist trying to make money out of his time in jail, but a vicious killer.
Brady, who was jailed in 1966, buried four of his child victims in graves on Saddleworth Moor, Greater Manchester. The 79-year-old died at Ashworth Hospital, a secure psychiatric unit in Merseyside where he had been detained since 1985 at £300,000 per year recent costs, for his own safety. He had admitted to all known crimes, but continued to taunt the family of one of his victims as to where they were buried during his incarceration to gain privileges.
Wonder if he suffered boredom and pain for 50 years because he was locked up and the beds were uncomfy.

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Re: Liberals!

Post by Auf Wiedersehen, Pet » Fri May 19, 2017 6:23 am

Probably the hardest topic ever posted on here. I've said previously, I pretty much dislike the media as stated above, most of the public believe what they read or hear. As one who has never been to prison, I can neither confirm or deny if they're like Butlins. My biggest fear or nightmare is a prison scenario of any kind for myself or my family members.
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Musta bin Elbowed
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Re: Liberals!

Post by Musta bin Elbowed » Fri May 19, 2017 4:27 pm

Lou wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 4:11 pm
If you can't do the time then don't do the crime
We're not talking about whether they can do the time, it's about how we treat them while they're doing it. The privileges prisoners get are not automatic, they are 'earned' through good behaviour (and can be withdrawn for bad behaviour). This system is used to keep them in line, and a staggered series of better privileges the more they stay in line stops the place becoming a cauldron of violence where the safety of the inmates, warders and other staff (dont forget the non-criminals who are 'in' prison every day) is at risk. It's a very complicated issue keeping hundreds of potentially violent criminals shacked up together in one building for years. The prison authorities in this country deem the privileges system the best way of 'controlling' inmates' behaviour. And they know more about it than we do.

Lou wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 4:11 pm
us taxpayers are providing them with three meals a day and a roof over their heads, which is a damn sight more a a lot of the poorer people in this country have.
You could say the same about the royal family

Musta bin Elbowed
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Re: Liberals!

Post by Musta bin Elbowed » Fri May 19, 2017 4:43 pm

rodoz wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 7:19 pm
Ian Brady...died at Ashworth Hospital, a secure psychiatric unit in Merseyside where he had been detained since 1985 at £300,000 per year recent costs, for his own safety.
As I tried to explain earlier in the thread, nobody is sent to a secure mental hospital "for their own safety". Brady was sent there after being diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic (no shit! :roll: ) - and he hated it and was constantly applying to be returned to prison (presumably because he couldn't be force fed there). A mental hospital is not the soft option for a prisoner.
rodoz wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 7:19 pm
but continued to taunt the family of one of his victims as to where they were buried during his incarceration to gain privileges.
Depends how you look at it. He was taken back to the moors in the mid-80s but said he couldn't locate Keith Bennett's grave as the landscape had changed so much in the 20-odd years since the murders. He did, however, help police locate the body of Pauline Reade, so does he deserve the benefit of the doubt re his attempts to locate Keith Bennett? Don't let revulsion at his vile crimes blind you to his later actions.

Musta bin Elbowed
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Re: Liberals!

Post by Musta bin Elbowed » Fri May 19, 2017 4:55 pm

Auf Wiedersehen, Pet wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 6:23 am
My biggest fear or nightmare is a prison scenario of any kind for myself or my family members.
Indeed. Let he who is without sin etc...

The tabloids get people thinking far too generally about these issues. It's very easy to assume prisons are full of rapists and murderers who should all just be thrown into a flaming pit, but the reality is most prison inmates are banged up for what Chris Morris would call "crimes that are small and twatty" :lol: the low-level stuff, repeat offenders, persistent thieves, fraudsters, drink drivers etc. Some people have even gone to prison for refusing to pay their council tax. What country would we be if we incarcerated people like that in a subterranean dungeon?

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Re: Liberals!

Post by rodoz » Sun May 21, 2017 7:48 pm

To clarify some points re Ian Brady.
Taxpayers have paid around £10million to keep Ian Brady in secure psychiatric care and jail since he was convicted of the notorious moors murders.
Brady served the first part of his sentence in solitary to protect him from other inmates' anger over his crimes.
He then staged hunger strikes at Gartree Prison in Leicestershire in a bid to force the Home Office to allow Hindley to visit him. If he was serious he would have refused food and drink.
The strikes ended in him being force-fed and the Home Office, in the face of public outrage at any compassion being shown to the two killers, refused his requests.
Brady then launched a campaign in 1971 to transfer to Broadmoor special hospital, but the Department of Health blocked it, saying medical criteria for such a move had not been fulfilled.
Labour peer Lord Longford continued the fight and in 1985 Brady finally had his wish granted to move to Park Lane special hospital, later renamed Ashworth.
Eventually Brady came to detest Ashworth and in 2013 successfully brought another appeal before a Mental Health Tribunal in a bid to be transferred back to a jail on the grounds he was no longer mentally ill.
Brady had suggested, if allowed to go back to a jail, he would be 'free to end his own life' by starving himself to death.
In fact the tribunal heard rather than on hunger strike, Brady daily ate toast and soup, the 'strike' not seriously suicidal but just another protest to satisfy his pathological need for control.
PS
I know that 'One flew over the cuckoos nest' was filmed at a real mental hospital and that some of the patients joined the crew. They even had an arsonist in the art department (would have been a good job for Moxey).
But it wasn't a real life documentary.

Musta bin Elbowed
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Re: Liberals!

Post by Musta bin Elbowed » Mon May 22, 2017 8:17 pm

Fair enough, I wasn't trying to defend Brady anyway. But what's your point? That we should treat all prisoners like animals because a small handful of them are beyond evil?

I'm curious why you felt such joy at his death. Why would it matter to you and why was it a 'great day'? Your life won't change one bit as a result of Brady's death. And the hatred that makes you feel good about him dying won't go away either - it will simply transfer to whichever psycho killer (Dennis Nilsen, Peter Sutcliffe, that bloke who killed those hookers in Ipswich) the tabloids tell you to hate now Brady is gone.

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